Daily Mail: Poll Discussion

Friday, June 09, 2006

Poll Discussion

For those who would like to clarify and extend their responses to the poll about alcohol, you may use this post. Simply leave a provocative comment below!

7 comments:

Kevin said...: Thanks anonymous! What I mean is that I have already heard people who thought "Should a Christian drink alcohol?" is put too strongly and would better be "May a Christian drink alcohol?" Also, there is no qualification for "under 18," so that was a concern of some. Most people appreciate the opportunity to "clarify and extend" remarks (or so I thought).
Personally, I'd love to hear from a "Yes, but not with communion" respondent!; 6/11/2006 05:21:00 PM
Anonymous said...: I can't stand the word "may"!!; 6/11/2006 11:15:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Christians are sinners too, so they MAY drink alcohol,but, they SHOULDN'T.; 6/17/2006 07:08:00 PM
Kevin said...: I'm not trying to be heavy-handed, but here is some Bible to consider:

Deuteronomy 14:22-26 "You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. 23 And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire- oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

That's a command to drink wine and beer!

1 Timothy 4:1-5 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

Amen to that!

Luke 7:33-35 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' 35 Yet wisdom is justified by all her children."

Would they have been happier with Dr. Welch?; 6/17/2006 10:47:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Deuteronomy is old testament.
The Greek word for wine in the
New Testament meant anything
from strong wine to wine vinegar
to sour grape juice to sweetend
grape juice.
I believe that drinking alcohol
is a bad witness to new or non
Christians. Paul said it was ok
for him to do a lot of things but
if it causes one of the bretheren
to stumble he would not do it.
That is the way I choose to be.; 6/23/2006 08:10:00 PM
Kevin said...: Hi G!

"Deuteronomy is old testament" is not a very good argument. Paul appeals to the OT no fewer than 200 times in his writings. Though the law was a gaurdian or tutor which we are no longer under (Gal 3:25), we don't forget the lessons of the law. Thus, Paul appeals to the law, including the ceremonial law, for instruction about the church's life and order. For example, one of his arguments for paying ministers for their work,is the Levitical principle that those who performed sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share with the altar (1 Corinthians 9:13). Paul declares that these are rights based on the example of the law (Numbers 18, for example). Surely in appealing to the law Paul does not expect that his argument may be dismissed with a simple "Numbers is Old Testament!" Such examples are manifold.

Whatever one takes "oinos" (the most common NT word for wine) to mean, are you doubting that the drink in Jesus' cup which he gave to his disciples was real, alcoholic wine? The "fruit of the vine" language used in the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper reflects the contemporary Jewish idiom. The Mishnah calls wine "the fruit of the vine" and specifically required "not less than four cups" per person at Passover, so this language was very familiar to the Gospel writers.

If you are bound by your own conscience regarding the "bad witness" of drinking alcohol, that is fine. But I have to ask if this extends to the Table, because if it does then it has gone beyond accomodating the weaker brother to violating the Lord's command. The conscience of the weaker brother cannot bind the practice of the Church. This was why Paul confronted the Judaizers over the matter of circumcision. It did not matter ot Paul whether one was circumcised or not (I Cor 7:19), but when Judaizers began to demand it of all Christians, Paul had to say no to them. Rather than capitulating to some perceived regulations about abstaining from alcohol, the Church ought to model the right use of alcohol for the world to see.

I'll be posting more on these things in coming days.

Thanks for commenting; I enjoy the discussion!; 6/24/2006 08:16:00 PM
Anonymous said...: the female form causes me to stumble. Therefore I think they should be abolished!; 6/27/2006 10:57:00 PM